[2025] UKUT 328 (AAC)

On 4 October 2024, a PACE (Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984) interview under caution was conducted, attended by Kyle Gettings and DVSA Vehicle Examiner Dominic Smith. The transcript of the interview (page 159) includes the following:

“…Can you explain why the vehicle [RE09 AVO) was being operated on 20th August 2024 without periodic mot and without vehicle excise licence?

Reply that lorry was being maintained from looking at it, I believe it was having a wheel bearing done, so we didn’t have possession of the vehicle.

Who did have possession of the vehicle?

Reply Steve Avery

Do you have any documentation to support the work that was done on the vehicle at Steve Avery?

Reply He won’t give us any of the PMi’s and maintenance records, but we have the invoices

Paperwork being the maintenance records?

Reply Yes, the PMI’s, we may have invoices which we can look out for it and send them too you

During the 1st visit we requested to inspect YK16XYA and requested for the vehicle to return back to base but due to the distance it wasn’t possible.

…

Vehicle YK16XYC we have verbally requested to inspect several times on 23rd and 27th August 2024. Where was the vehicle on these dates?

Reply I don’t remember those dates but I can look into it

On 27th August 2024 you informed both myself and Vehicle Examiner Smith that the vehicle was in for maintenance work at Wall’s Trucks, is that correct?

Reply again I’m unsure with the dates, but it was in at Walls trucks for maintenance work, I don’t agree with the several times, I believe it was once or twice

Why was vehicle YK16XYC in the workshop?

Reply Clutch repair

When were you told that it was fixed and ready for collection?

Reply I’m not sure, I can’t remember

…

When XYC left the maintenance provider, where did it go to?

Reply I assuming that it came straight to the yard

On 27th August 2024 both myself and VE Smith repeatedly asked you where XYC was where you continued to state that the vehicle was having maintenance undertaken.

…

Throughout the investigation the black bulk trailer hasn’t been produced. On 27th August 2024 where was the Black Bulk trailer?

Reply at K & D, at maintenance provider

…

On 23rd August 2024 we requested to inspect maintenance records where we were informed that there wasn’t a key for the cabinet.

What maintenance records were available in the office VE Smith seized for inspection, and issued a receipt for those records.

On 27th August 2024 you indicated that the keys still hadn’t been found and you forcedly accessed the cabinet where the maintenance files were located.

When inspection of the maintenance files took place, the receipt that was issued on 23rd August 24 was located in the vehicle files.

So if no one had the keys to the cabinet, how did the receipt that was issued on 23rd August be found inside of the files on the 27th August?

Reply I gave the receipt to Dom [presumably Vehicle Examiner Dominic Smith] and we put it in the vehicle folder on the Tuesday and a new receipt was issued for the files

During the inspection of vehicle records for XYA it has been noted on the PMI record that K & B Haulage LTD is the operator, however the vehicle has been specified on the operators licence for RS Transport at the time of the inspection. Can you explain why the PMI’s are in your name but the vehicle is not specified on your operators licence?

Reply Richard [possibly a reference to the operator’s designated transport manager] was here everyday, Steve Avery would come and grab the lorries and do the PMI’s, I’m assuming that because the lorries was here that Steve thought that it was ours

…

Reply There has been mistakes being made, I accept these to a point and I need to do better, I’m now a lot more involved with the running of the business and lorries, I did have a transport manager to do this, but I’ve taken this on myself and ensuring that everything is done correctly. This includes the paperwork side and ensured that we have an electronic systems in place for reminders for tax, insurance, tachograph calibrations, PMI’s, literally everything. Our electronic system scheduled for 2 years in advance so we don’t miss tachograph calibrations and PMI’s etc

The matters will also be referred to the Traffic Commissioner for consideration, is there anything else you wish to add or say?

Reply Moving forward I can demonstrate a planner for 2 years in advance, before we would have to pay, before the paperwork for the maintenance / PMI’s, now we don’t pay until we get the maintenance paperwork, which has proved to be very difficult with the maintenance providers. As a result we have changed maintenanceprovider again, which will provide paperwork on the same day of testing. We are constantly trying to improve, and we accept any information and guidance and punishment that maybe coming my way. I’m hopeful to keep the operators licence and prove we will do better. Unfortunately, I can’t change the past and the past failings but I can make sure that it doesn't happen again. I would be happy to evident this every two to three months if required.

This concludes the interview. I will now ask you to read the notes of interview and sign them as a true record, or to indicate in which respects you consider any part of them to be incorrect.

I confirm that this is a true record of the interview.”

On 23 October 2024, the operator emailed Dominic Smith, DVSA Vehicle Examiner (page 138):

“Please see below reply in regards to the maintenance investigation [dated 5 October 2024, page 147].

We firstly would like to hold our hands up and accept that things have not been done correctly previously, this was an oversight of the Director who had employed a transport manager and assumed he was completing all that was needed, when on discovery it was clear he had not.

Kyle has now taken responsibility over this and we have made a lot of changes since your visit to show our commitment for changes going forward.

…

We now have a new service provider, work is completed on time, in a timely manner and inspection records received at time of vehicle collection or earlier, inspection sheets are supplied via the pendigo system and all relevant sections are completed, any errors/issues are raised immediately and fixed imminently. Every inspection includes a roller brake test.

…

We have now started using Davis Commercials in Newport, we have sent a maintenance contract to them, awaiting signing, and I will be updating the operators license to show them as our only maintenance provider when I receive signed documentation.

…”.