[2025] UKUT 328 (AAC)

TC: So, you're saying, then later you say you didn't know that the lorry had been collected.

KG: Yes, I did, yes.

TC: But it was your tachograph card that was in the head –

KG: I lied to them, yes, I did.

TC: You lied?

KG: Yes.

TC: Why did you do that?

KG: Honestly, I don't know. I believe, I think I was being smart is the honest answer, trying not to answer them and going around it.

TC: Let's move on to something else, and this is an unusual one. The maintenance records, they were in a cabinet that you didn't have keys for.

KG: That’s correct.

TC: How did you not have keys for it?

KG: Because [transport manager] had them. So, [transport manager] comes up every week, and I can show you a message, every week he was coming up and doing 8 hours every Friday. So, he had them, I had no real need to go into it until making aware of it, being made aware of it.

TC: So, he resigned on the 31st of July, and this is the 23rd of August.

KG: He still came up 8 hours a week. And I could show, he was still coming out because I told him I still need him to do that. So, he actually resigned, and he left because he was there full time.

…

TC: Now it appears throughout this that you've been blaming your transport manager for most of the shortcomings.

KG: At first, yes, because I believe if I'm paying someone to do the job, then they should be doing that job. But looking over it all now, then no, it's not, he's not entirely at fault. I am at fault. I should have made sure he was doing his job… That's my biggest failure. I didn't manage him. Naively, I thought by paying all this money for him, then I didn't have to worry about it, but in actual fact, if someone's doing the job then I need to be a lot more involved to make sure they're doing the job…

KG:…I have text messages, but they're not going to be of no relevance to you, but asking Steve for the paperwork, he wasn't prepared to give us the paperwork until we paid him because we owe him like £4000. I'm like, well, we're not going to pay you until you've given us the paperwork. And this is why the maintenance records are missing. This is why, you know, we've printed off all the invoices so you could see he's actually charged us for them. And, sorry, apologies, I just want to add at the time as well, no one wanted to accept blame right away until they actually go away and think about it rather than sitting there and saying nothing, it's probably the wrong course of action I took, but you know, reflecting on it and being in front of yourself now, I've got to be honest with myself and, again, honest with you.

…

TC:… how come your vehicles are all out of tax, and one was out of MOT?

KG: There is no answer, that's just damn right stupidity. It is damn right stupidity. When they said about it was - yeah. I can't blame anyone. There's no one to blame but myself. However, we have put a system in place now…we have alerts when anything's even close, so this doesn't ever happen again.

TC:…I've also had a look this morning at PMI for YK16 XYA.

KG: Yes.

TC: It was inspected on the 9th of December, so only a week ago.

KG: Yeah.

TC: And this is done obviously at Davis Commercials, and they found rear tyres below legal limit and in poor condition, and the action to be taken was to rectify it. So, then I have a look, so that's the 9th of December. And we've got some driver defect reports in here. It also records an air malfunction which the driver had been recording, but... so the latest one I had before the inspection appears to be the 6^th of December where Sergei reports an air system malfunction, which he's been reporting for, to be fair to him, for months.

KG: Yes.

TC: But he didn't mention anything about the tyres being a bit low at the back. So how do I go from that, which I've got, it's taken out an odometer reading of 787,053 and a PMI that's 787,201, so 150 kilometres later, which records that the rear axle tyres are below the legal limit.

KG: I don't know. I haven't looked over that file yet, so.

TC: I mean actually recording them, the tread depths, he's actually recorded 3 out of 4 tyres at 0 millimetres tread depth.

KG: Who has?

TC: Davis Commercials.

…

TC: There are some questions I have to ask you, which you would think are blindingly obvious, but I have to ask you. Let's start with the ones that are maybe slightly less obvious. So, one thing I could do is curtail the licence from 10 vehicles to 10 trailers, and you're operating 2 at the moment?

KG: Yes, that's all we're doing, yes.

TC: So, if I was to curtail it to 2 or to 3?

KG: Three would be fantastic.

TC: If I was to suspend the licence, say for a period of 1 month or 3 months, how would you cope?

KG: Sir, whatever your decision is, I'll respect it. So, if it's 1 month, I'll learn to cope, 3 months I'll learn to cope, you know, it will be a detrimental factor against the company, but you're going to do what's best for everyone. So, one month, I'll be honest, one month would be a struggle, but I would heed my warning, and I'd understand, and I would get by. 3 months, that would be a lot…

…

TC: Right. As I say, some of these questions might be a bit obvious but I have to ask them, if I was to revoke the licence entirely, what would that do to your business?

KG: It would completely collapse. And obviously I'd have to get rid of drivers - the only driver we have, obviously - and potentially sell my lorries.

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TC: And then if I revoke the licence, I can also disqualify you for a period, maybe 3 years, from holding a licence again. So, what would you do in terms of your career and employment?

KG: I don't know. It's, like I say, it's been a financial strain all year, and to try and start something else now would be very difficult I believe. Especially as now we're making good out of a very bad situation.

…”.