[2025] UKUT 167 (AAC)

Mollie took part in an ABE interview that lasted for just under an hour. The date of the interview is not clear, but all the indications are that it was some time in the summer of 2023 but on a date after Molly’s placement with Ellie had been ended (see p.82, where Ellie is described as Molly’s “old carer”). Mollie appears to have been reluctant to engage with the interviewing officer to any real degree. She did say that on the day of the birthday party it had been too noisy downstairs so she had gone up to her bedroom (p.86). When the officer probed gently about what had happened next, Mollie replied “I don’t really remember much” (p.88). She confirmed that the Appellant had come into her bedroom, but when she was asked what had happened she replied “I don’t really know…” (p.89). A typical exchange is at p.90:

Later in the ABE interview Molly stated that the Appellant had not previously been in her bedroom (p.93). In answer to the question “when he came over to you did he touch you at all?” she replied “I don’t think so” (p.94). However, she later added that “he started getting a bit too close” around Christmas 2022 (p.98). The ABE interview was subsequently paused for a break but was not resumed as Molly refused to re-enter the interview room (p.106).

We acknowledge that the ABE interview does not include any really incriminating evidence as to what happened on the day of Ellie’s birthday party in June 2022. That fact, in itself, may well account for the CPS decision not to press charges by way of criminal proceedings but we need not speculate about that. However, equally that interview does not amount to evidence that nothing untoward took place. The fact that Molly was mostly unco-operative in her ABE interview may well be accounted for by her young age and the emotional trauma she had experienced (including the effective breakdown of her most recent long-term foster placement). There may well be other reasons (e.g. the oppressive nature of a police interview room). So, the mere fact that in her ABE interview Molly did not repeat to the officer the precise disclosure she had made to Ellie does not assist the Appellant – not least as he himself has admitted that he had kissed Molly on her lips, as we shall see.