[2024] UKUT 398 (AAC)

In the introductory part of the hearing, the TC said that he had received a “file” from Mr Saleh “with regard to his role as transport manager” and that the TC proposed to “go through” that evidence with Mr Saleh (top of page 336 of the Upper Tribunal bundle);

After some preliminary questioning of Ms K about how many vehicles Excell Logistics Ltd had on the road at various times, the TC said he was going to deal with the role of the transport manager at the time (when one of Excell Logistics Ltd’s vehicles was pulled over by DVSA) (page 341);

After questioning Mr Saleh on his responsibility for compliance matters, the TC turned to the “interim licence” and then asked: “And you said in your submission dated the 26^th of October that you were surprised the interim was granted because of the issues with regard to finances. Is that right?” (page 342);

Shortly afterwards, the TC asked this: “And then you also say that you had been on the licence for nine months and there were a number of issues and problems in respect of your role as transport manager. Tell me about the issues and problems that you had” (top of page 343);

In response, Mr Saleh referred, amongst other things, to “communications issues” with Miss Kufandirori. In the course of questioning, one of the things Mr Saleh said was that 4 October was the first he, or Miss Kufandirori, knew of the withdrawal of the application to vary Excell Logistics Ltd’s licence (see page 345);

The TC referred (again) to Mr Saleh’s “statement” (bottom of page 346), referring specifically to Mr Saleh’s stated belief that Miss Kufandirori mistakenly withdrew the variation application and did not wish to mention that (top of page 347);

Mr Saleh’s “letter” is again referred to be the TC (in respect to Mr Saleh’s reasons for not immediately resigning as transport management when he discovered that Excell Logistics Ltd was operating more than one vehicle) – page 348;

Following the TC’s questioning of Mr Saleh, Miss Kufandirori’s solicitor was given the chance to ask Mr Saleh questions (page 349); as part of this, Mr Saleh agreed that Miss Kufandirori by and large followed Mr Saleh’s advice, and had good intentions; and that Mr Saleh did not see any “knowing wrongdoing” within Excell Logistics Ltd. The solicitor then said this (bottom of page 349):

“Thank you. That’s my cross examination, sir. It was just whether, because that’s the first we’ve heard of this evidence. I didn’t take any witness statement or anything, whether [Miss Kufandirori] – do you, obviously there will be points you agree on there. Was there anything that you disagreed with fundamentally with what Mr Saleh was saying?”

Miss Kufandirori then referred to some details of the compliance record; this moved to the TC starting his own questioning of Miss Kufandirori (page 350).