Upper Tribunal Administrative Appeals Chamber

[2024] UKUT 440 (AAC)

Fecha: 23-Ago-2024

The ABE interview

The ABE interview

26.

The full transcripts of NR’s ABE interviews were included, suitably redacted, in the UT bundle. These are important as they are what she stated when interviewed by the police in 2020. The details set out below are NR’s side of events and are relied upon by DBS to reach their decision. The first interview occurred on 7 February 2020 and is at pp 240-283 of our bundle. The second interview occurred on 23 September 2020 and is found at pp 285-303 of our bundle.

27.

The following are relevant extracts from the 7 February interview:

(i)

In 1998 NR lived in X and attended School A, the centre was at Y 5-10 minutes from X (p242)

(ii)

NR went to the centre with her school or confirmation group. They had a phone conversation and he told her she stuck out like a sore thumb. NR looked older than she was (p246)

(iii)

NR felt massive pressure to have sex with JC after he asked her (p247). This was after the 2 occasions of oral sex (p258)

(iv)

They met up a number of occasions over weeks and he asked her to perform oral sex on him in his car on the sea front and elsewhere (p248/256). JC used to call her on the house phone (p249)

(v)

The relationship lasted a couple of months between Feb and May when NR was 15 (p254)

(vi)

JC asked to meet NR after everyone had gone to bed (p255)

(vii)

NR told her father she was going to spend the night at a friend’s house, her father was away in Spain, she went to work in a restaurant and when she returned home that night JC came to her father’s maisonette as arranged (p259)

(viii)

There was blood from NR losing her virginity (p265)

(ix)

NR thought that JC was not circumcised but was seemingly unsure (p268)

(x)

JC knew NR’s father and had attended at her family church (p271)

(xi)

NR’s father became aware on his return from Spain that NR had lied about where she was on the Friday night. Her mother then became involved and she told her mother about JC (but not that they had had sex) (p273)

(xii)

NR went to JC’s house and he broke it off with her following NR’s mother’s visit to him (p274/280)

(xiii)

JC would visit at NR’s school with others from the centre (p276)

(xiv)

NR states that she never told her mother that they had sex and her mother didn’t know (p273/277) although PM says she did (p55) and NR seems to change her view in the later interview (p296).

28.

The following are relevant extracts from the 23 September 2020 interview:

(i)

JC would have seen NR in class in her school uniform (p287)

(ii)

In July 1998 JC would have been 15 as her birthday is December (p289). She would have been in year 10 not her GCSE year (p298)

(iii)

The first time they met was when she was at school (p290-291)

(iv)

JC would have known her age because of the confirmation group (p291)

(v)

NR told JC when her birthday was (p294)

(vi)

JC did not want anyone finding out about their relationship (p294-295).