HT-2021-000363 - [2025] EWHC 532 (TCC)

Fecha: 10-Mar-2025

The factual witnesses

The factual witnesses

139.

IBM relied on evidence from the following factual witnesses, who produced witness statements and gave oral evidence:

Steve Wallin, executive product development leader at IBM;

ii)

Ian Lyon, First Line Sales Manager of Systems business at IBM;

iii)

Paul Knight, Sales Manager with responsibility for Winsopia;

iv)

Emma Wright, IBM’s Head of Legal, UK and Ireland;

Mark Anzani, Special Projects Executive at IBM Corp;

vi)

Ian Mitchell, IBM Z Strategic Modernisation Leader at IBM.

140.

The court heard oral evidence from the following factual witnesses who produced witness statements on behalf of the defendants:

Thilo Rockmann, fifth defendant, CEO of LzLabs, Director of Winsopia and Director of LzLabs UK;

ii)

Jan Jaeger, Chief Technology Officer and Chief Software Architect at LzLabs;

iii)

Christian Wehrli, former Vice President of Product Delivery at LzLabs;

iv)

David Bond, Senior Software Developer at LzLabs;

Brad Taylor, Senior Software Developer at LzLabs;

vi)

Christopher Palmer, Software Engineer at Winsopia;

vii)

Keith Rastall, General Manager of Winsopia;

viii)

John Moores, the sixth defendant, principal investor in the LzLabs Group and Winsopia;

ix)

Mark Cresswell, fourth defendant, CEO and Director of LzLabs and former Director of Winsopia and LzLabs UK;

Gary Whittingham, Senior Software Engineer at Winsopia;

xi)

Alan Playford, Systems Consultant at Winsopia;

xii)

Thomas Grieve, Senior Mainframe Systems Engineer at Winsopia;

xiii)

Kevin Lynch, Senior Mainframe Systems Engineer at Winsopia;

xiv)

John Bray, Mainframe Systems Engineer at Winsopia.

141.

The defendants also relied on witness statements produced by the following witnesses who were not required to give oral evidence (without any admissions as to the contents of their statements):

Daniel Hedley, solicitor who provides advice and legal services to LzLabs and Winsopia;

ii)

Eric Spencer, Senior Software Developer at LzLabs;

iii)

Bryan Young, Head of IT Infrastructure at LzLabs;

iv)

Martin Bleach, Quality Assurance Engineer at LzLabs.

142.

The court received reports and heard oral evidence from the following experts for IBM:

Michael Swanson, a former software designer for IBM mainframe systems and an IBM fellow with over thirty years’ experience as a systems programmer, who produced his first report dated 9 January 2024, second report dated 20 March 2024 and third report dated 24 June 2024;

ii)

Professor Jon Weissman, a Professor of Computer Science at the University of Minnesota, who produced his first report dated 6 January 2024, second report dated 19 March 2024 and third report dated 24 June 2024.

143.

The court received reports and heard oral evidence from the following experts for the defendants:

Professor Alastair Donaldson, a Professor in Computing at Imperial College London, who produced his first report dated 27 February 2024, an addendum report dated 3 April 2024, second report dated 25 April 2024 and third report dated 30 May 2024;

ii)

David Stephens, the Lead Systems Programmer and owner of Longpela Expertise, an Australian mainframe consultancy company, with over thirty years’ experience working with IBM mainframes, who produced his first report dated 20 February 2024, a technical primer dated 20 February 2024 and second report dated 31 May 2024.

144.

It is clear that each of the above individuals acquired a deep understanding of the technical issues in dispute and used his considerable intellectual understanding and expertise to assist the court. In particular, the court had the benefit of very clear and helpful joint statements from the experts, setting out their agreements and individual opinions on matters on which they disagreed:

first Expert Joint Statement dated 15 December 2023;

ii)

second Expert Joint Statement dated 5 April 2024;

iii)

Joint Primer dated 10 April 2024;

iv)

third Expert Joint Statement dated 19 April 2024.

145.

I am very grateful to the experts for their careful consideration of the expert issues and their co-operation in producing materials to assist the court to determine the numerous technical issues in this case.

146.

Likewise, I express my thanks to counsel on both sides for their clear and percipient cross-examination and submissions, and for their co-operation in ensuring that the hearing was conducted in a respectful and efficient manner.